why taekwondo sucks

not surprising to be first on my pay-out list, taekwondo is probably one of the top most practiced martial art in the world, even making it into the olympic games. Mainly a Korean martial art, Taekwondo is critiqued by the public is 70% kicking, 10% punching, 20% flying and 100% useless.

The origins of Taekwondo is a bit messy, the traditional Korean martial art ‘taekkyeon’/’taekyon’ etc (no real correct spelling for audit translations, with that said shut up about spelling ‘jujitsu’ wrong) was supposedly a deadly and practical fighting form until Korea was invaded by the Japs around the early 1500’s and was banned from practice, and instead teaching them half-asses karate and some exposure to Chinese martial arts (if anyone tells me they do “kung fu” one more time I’ll heel drop into his nuts. “Kung fu” in Chinese is a generic term for ‘martial arts’ or ‘effort’, so telling me you learnt kung fu is equivalent to telling me you practiced rigid dancing with a white guy that’s studied under Jacky Chan movies!) anyways, I’m getting off topic….

So Taekyon was pretty much wiped out, but around the mid 1500’s the Korean’s thought that they were losing their national identity so they decided to establish a new art called “taekwon-do”, which is now essentially karate with more kicks. And over the years as people become less and less durable and more and more lazy and martial arts becoming a hobby rather than a vital skill, Taekwondo is now more a sport for the biggest losers to keep fit and learn how to kick boards in mid-air.

Now with the history out of the way, let me illustrate why taekwondo sucks:

and he’s crying…..

with that power, he probably wouldn’t have done anything to him if it did hit…..

if they had a bigger stage he might have done better…. maybe like a football field and the other guy didn’t move closer than 10 meters of him…

ok, so maybe I’m a bit unjust to place taekwondo vs muay thai clips here (because muay thai rules!…stay tuned:) but I can’t be stuffed browsing through anymore, taekwondo guys don’t win in MMA. And if you ever seen a TKD vs TKD match… well to be honest it’s not too bad to watch people doing triple kicks and flying somersault kicks in front of each other without the intention of hitting the other guy… but you’d might as well watch something less stupid, like the fantastic 4 movies…. and don’t get me started on the Olympic tournaments…. they’re just painful to watch…

As I’ve mentioned on my intro I’ve done Taekwondo before at the World Taekwondo Federation (same place I did Haidong Gumdo, more on that at a later date), better known as WTF?! And to be honest, I have been doing it for less than a month and half the new guys thought I taught better than the seniors and I could easily beat a few of the high level belts…. so I quite once I got my yellow….cost me 50 bucks…. probably wiser if I spent it on a self-help book, at least even if I don’t read it I can put it on my shelf and make me look knowledgeable…

just to finish off, here’s another useless skill you learn from TKD: how to kick an apple off a sword in the air

I’m sure this will come in handy when your chopping block is stuck to the ceiling and have a serious crave for apple squash

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132 Responses to “why taekwondo sucks”

  1. You didnt do your research.

    First of all, Taekyon is very much alive. You can practice it today. It is not a real martial art though(it never was). Its more of a tripping and wrestling game.

    Second: Korean martial arts were not banned during the 1500s. The Koreans successfully defeated the Japanese during the 1590s invasion attempt. It was banned in the early 1900s when the Japanese(with a little help from modern western weaponry) annexed the Korean peninsula.

    Third: Taekwondo has nothing to do with Taekyon. The two styles are completely different. Taekwondo wasn’t even influenced by Taekyon since none of the founders practiced it.

    Fourth: WTF Taekwondo = Olympic SPORT Taekwondo. The reason why it sucks as a martial art is because its a sport. Its not supposed to be effective. Hence the reason why WTF TKD practioners do not punch, throw, grapple, heatbutt or whatever. Because they are practicing a sport that they assume is a martial art. WTF is geared towards the olympics.

    Fifth: There are many different versions of Taekwondo that are better suited for self defense. ITF is one of them. Tukong is another which is practiced by the military. There are also several other styles of TKD that are independent of any federations.

    That said, Muay Thai is the best striking art imo.

  2. freakychinaman Says:

    First of all, thanks for your reply.

    Although I didn’t say there isn’t taekyon now (keyword: was), saying that it’s gone isn’t completely false either considering there isn’t much of it around anymore, and that as you said yourself it’s more of a ‘game’ now and lost most of it’s martial applications.

    And about your second and third point, I gathered the info here and there from different taekwondo clubs….. maybe it was a bad move…

    WTF… yea, it sucks, but if I keep going on this post will be an essay, but thanks for adding some reality to the point…

    ITF….. I disagree…. no fancy argument, I just don’t agree….
    And of course there are tons of other styles, but the ‘decent’ ones these days also incorporate other styles and evolve, and I don’t see those being a good representation to what the public sees as taekwondo.

    And to be honest with Muay Thai, it’s probably the best striking art, but it does cause problems in today’s society where you don’t actually want to kill the other guy 😛

  3. I like articles that tear open closed eyes. I particularly like your personal revelations about training in the TKD school.

  4. dumbass
    first video you provided is a show, in the other ones, just because the fighter sucks, doesn’t mean the martial art suck. Go on youtube and type taekwondo vs muay thai and you ll find many fights where your favourite MT (i go and kick my low kick with my straight leg) is getting owned.

    And yes, it’s a martial art. Sparring is sport, however. And taekwondo is not only sparring.

    And the last video is for show again. These are tricks and are just for SHOW. People who do them are usually very average fighters sparring wise.

    There are many ways you can choose your “career” in taekwondo. You are judging a massive martial art by some experience in a shit ass club with getting your yellow belt. paying 50$ for it means you were ripped off, because 100$ is a price for 1st dan usually.

    Delete your post, because it just shows how clueless and stupid you are.

    • YOU SHOULD NEVER PAY TO HAVE TO BELT UP. I have been doing martiall arts for some 7 years now, and have done BJJ, Muay-Thai, Krav-maga, and judo and I have never seen a reason to pay to belt up.

      • Chris Browne Says:

        7 years only? That still makes you a novice man. I have been studying various MA for over 30 including ITF TWD and Muay-Thai and I would agree with you that WTF is crap. It can in no way be compared to ITF TWD which is a martial art whereby WTF is just a Olympic sport and basically useless and is in no way a martial art. ITF TWD for the record is 70% strikes and 30% kicks. Sure all the the high kicks are there but on the street you would rely on hard strikes and low to mid kicks. I do enjoy kicking with the shin, using my elbows and knees so in that respect Muay-Thai is very useful.

  5. freakychinaman Says:

    The first video was a show?….. well if you meant they broadcasted it on TV, sure; and if you mean they were just performing to entertain…. well they did a real shit job…

    Sparring I see it as a method to familiarize yourself with fighting without really wanting to hurt your opponent, to treat it as a sport means you’re neglecting the purpose. Therefore that is why I think clubs that treat tournaments as a priority are just idiots, because then they shift from trying to get good at fighting to trying to get good at practicing fighting. And if you say taekwondo is not only sparring (as a matter of fact it’s the lack of sparring that I’ve been talking about if I’m not mistaken… wrote this a long time ago…), what is there that makes it better? the patterns? the meditation? making friends? or learning that people are nothing like wooden boards?

    As for the show, the fact that they spent time training for that tells you they wasted a lot of time, and the fact that I see this demo all the time tells me that many places make many people waste A LOT of time.

    And I am not judging the martial art solely on my own experience at the club, but more from the points I mentioned about [and yes, thank you for informing me, the reason I mentioned the price was SO not to tell people that I felt ripped off…].

    I won’t delete this post, it attracts people that are insecure about what they do and feel the need to rant about it on a strangers website to reassure themselves, giving further evidence that too many people just don’t know what they are doing when they chose the art…

    • it is up to you to like the art or not, but in your article you show a huge disrespect and ignorance to taekwondo, and the “facts” the you provide are completely wrong and missing the point.

      You can’t judge an art by fights versus other art also, simply because it’s the fighter who wins, not the art. Art is just a tool.

      I cant even find the words how badly you pissed me off with your article…

      • freakychinaman Says:

        Oh, just realized this was here, you posted 2 so I didn’t notice it.

        And it is true, the art is a tool, and I emphasize that a lot, as well as the fact that no matter how shit a tool is, there are those that make use of it. But say at the same level of training and experience, wouldn’t a person benefit more with a better tool? And is the comparison between the 2 in the same conditions the best way to gauge this?

        Anyways, this post probably won’t be going anywhere any time soon, so I’ll be happy to wait for you to expand your vocabulary enough to be able to express yourself through a written statement.

      • Thank you!

    • And about sparring, “not wanting to hurt an opponent” ? Have you sparred yourself? And I don’t mean 10 year old kids fight, but a proper grown up fight when you need to win no matter what. have you seen those eyes that want to kill you and hunt your head with no mercy? You can’t know or research that on youtube videos or wikipedia, you have to feel and face it yourself.

      And i suggest you add an edit button

      • freakychinaman Says:

        there is a difference between playing rough and wanting to kill an opponent. When you get into a real fight where there is no need for mercy, things like groin kicks, biting, elbows to the neck… all these things come into play. And even MMA tournaments don’t allow that sort of thing. Sparring is a learning process, of course you’ll need the mentality of winning and strike hard, as I said it’s practicing and preparing for real fights; but it’s not like you’re going to floor the guy then stomp on his face till his jaw breaks off. And if you really need to win no matter what… well in that case it’ll count more as ‘fending for your life’ than sparring, which I must admit I have never had the need to fend for my life… it’s often quite peaceful over here… almost boring…

        Anyways, by the time I come around putting that edit button in (or at least locate it), I would’ve forgotten why I would want to do that in the first place…. and by the time I do remember, I’d realize it was because of a random who left a comment… and as such I wouldn’t bother and I would’ve wasted like 10 minutes of my life… so I’m gona save myself the trouble and do something more productive… or at least use it to THINK of something to do that is productive…

  6. Roberteins Says:

    Yep.. tkd sucks

    It’s totally uneffective nowadays, it’s just an olympic sport really.

    Here’s a real story: A friend of mine (totally untrained street fighter) stole a girlfriend from another guy who was a tkd practitioner and a black belt. So obviously there was a fight once the school day finished. And here it was, and we all thought “Damn, he is a black belt, he’s gonna own him”.. but nope, my friend started punching him, and the tkd guy just stepping back (i guess trying to get some space to exectute his tkd kicks) untill he fell to the floor, then my mate gave him a couple of kicks and then it was over.

    So where it was all those years of training? did they really became useful in a real life situation?… the answer is no.
    And for all those folks with the argument: “It’s the practitioner, not the art”.. i totally disagree, why a guy with 15 years of experience in tkd would be beaten by a dude with 1 year of brazilian jiujitsu then? (look it up on youtube)

    • My friend, I have had several people attempt to mug me.. I appear as an “approachable” person, I suppose. I use TKD as my base martial art, and while I do have training in others, I mainly use tkd principles. I have fought other martial artist, in street brawls. Tkd has helped me more times than I can count. It is absolutely the practitioner.

      The only man I lost to was a man with 12 years of training, and real life experience, due to his being in the military for 12 years. I believe that the following are what matter in a fight, from least important to most important; The martial art itself, raw talent at fighting, training, and REAL experience in REAL combat.

      That being said, I feel that it is best to learn a little bit of everything. I have a lot of experience in real fights, as well as 6 years of TKD (not very much), a decent amount of training in Wing Chun, Muay Thai, Judo. and 15 years of the Shira Nui Ryu. While it is true some martial arts aren’t nesessarily as good as others, I still believe they have some practical use. If you cannot find a use for the art you are practicing, then the flaw is in you. I have beaten several tkd “masters” traveled all over the world, seen a lot of things. i have only lost a few good times. It maters how hard you work at what you know.

      Schoolyard fights make me lough, as i used to be involved in those, when I was a Highschooler! haha! They were interesting.. to say the least. When you meet a man who can land a quick blow to the chest, against a Muay Thai master, and a few other masters from various other martial arts, and that blow is shown to be fatal, you lose care about what martial art does what.

      The man I traveled the world with developed a technique that was taught to me after a few years of traveling with him. He used it on these masters, and not a single one was able to stop it, or dodge it. This man is truly amazing, I was thankful for his wisdom. R.I.P.

      I do believe that it is important to know more than one martial art.. And it is good to practice the philisophical side to martial arts, as well as the artistic, and martial sides.

      Thanks much,
      Master Hayashi Yohei

  7. Lol, there are fanboys of everything. Even something as sh***y and ineffectual as Tae Kwon Do. Have fun with your silly flying somersault kicks there, sissies.

  8. freakychinaman Says:

    amongst other things, thank you for being rather considerate with the censorship 🙂 too much swearing already on the internet…

  9. that story is fucking bullshit i would kick the guys ass who wrote this yea i take tkd. it is one of the most efficient arts if taught properly, yea it is starting to be a sport but the traditional tkd isn’t useless.. you guys just suck ass at it go fight a REAL tkd fighter not the sport you will get your ass kicked so shut your asses up fucking fan boys god damn you are all stupid

    • If you really do take TKD then why would you find yourself getting so upset over a persons opinion of the art?I take it you haven’t been a student long,people just look to get a rise out of others and you should not really take heed in what they say.You cannot judge something you do not understand,it is like you’s are having a pissing contest.Wasn’t that in a movie once started with my master is better than your master?And who disrespects any art as to take it to learn to fight?Do you honestly believe that one is better than another?How can it be,some have more benefit than others but in anything you only get out what you are willing to put in.I know 30 years ago when I started taking different forms of the arts which I am still active in and I do not consider one better than another.They each have a different outlook on interpretation on how to use.None of them would ever teach you that they are the best,and any master who is credidable or worthy of teaching an art would ever allow a student to disrepect anothers choice of study.

  10. freakychinaman Says:

    It’s ironic isn’t it that right after I thank someone for not swearing, someone fills something that can be summed up in 2 sentences into a paragraph… (grammar is rarely an issue here but please, ‘fuck’ ‘ass’ and ‘bullshit’ cannot be used to substitute punctuations).
    I would also be interested in knowing what the definition of a “real” tkd fighter is. Are those that do the sport not real tkd fighters? The term for ‘properly’ is always such an ambiguous term; are you just going to say that that it’s just that the majority of people are just not properly taught? or that it’s just because a small number of people are just geniuses and could be great fighters even without any training at all?

    p.s. please stop bringing people’s asses into discussions… it’s just not right…

  11. WTF sparring is all about speed and precision, it is the style used in the Olympics with headgear and body armour where you can only kick above waist height (headshots allowed) and no punching to the head (bodyshots allowed). It is a full contact sport which means you can hit your opponent as hard as you like with KOs allowed (ITF is semi-contact).This club is WTF.
    As with most martial arts Taekwondo has several aspects, these are:
    Sparring, forms/traditional and self-defence techniques.
    To those who don’t know too much about Taekwondo, it is an art which prides itself on it’s kicking believing that the leg is the most powerful and longest weapon the human body has. It is roughly about 70% kicks.
    In sparring competitions, you could watch a whole match without seeing one punch and this is quite common as they are rarely scored by judges, which is one of the reasons alot of WTF fighters have a low guard. Seeing as kicks are mostly used you will also see alot of fighters on their toes constantly slightly hopping so that they can fire a kick alot quicker and so that they can step away from an attack more easily (blocking is less common is sparring). Some say it is harder to do these things effectively if you have both arms up like a boxer so most fighters will have at least one arm down. The way i see Taekwondo sparring is that it’s like boxing but for the feet instead of the fists.
    Unfortunately alot of people judge Taekwondo solely on what they see in the sparring aspect in the Olympics and then class the whole martial art as ‘just a sport’ and ‘unrealistic’ and too flashy in a self-defence situation.

    1) The sporting aspect IS heavily emphasized in WTF, but a good Taekwondo fighter will be well versed in ALL areas of the art.

    2) Wrestling, boxing and Muay Thai are ‘just’ sports as well, does that mean they should be put down? A wrestler wouldn’t be in a wrestling stance (crouched down with arms open) in a ‘real-life situation’ or an MMA bout, and neither would a TKDoer be in a WTF stance or try a 720 spinning kick in the same situation. Although I wouldn’t recommend all those flashy high kicks outside the mat, it does take alot of skill and determination to pull them off and probably means they are even better at the more ‘basic’ more effective kicks.

    I would be the first to admit WTF Taekwondo is less ‘hardcore’ than alot of other martial arts/combat styles out there as the TKDoers have to use alot of protective equipment in sparring, bodyshots are most common and as stated before you cannot punch to the head. You do learn alot of strikes and use various parts of the body to execute them but they are all illegal in sparring which means you probably won’t be able to hit a resisting opponent with a knee or elbow as effectively as say a Thai boxer would (Muay Thai allows all these moves in their fights.)

    Thanks for listening lol I know I’ve gone on a bit but I hope I’ve helped and that you will enjoy Taekwondo as it is a very rewarding martial art.

  12. One more thing.

    Regarding WTF Taekwondo’s use for MMA, I would say it IS useful if adapted properly just like a pure wrestler would have to adapt his style to MMA as you wouldnt use a wrestling stance in MMA (I wouldnt recommend hopping around either lol). Most of the kicks used in WTF sparring can be used in MMA but I would adapt the roundhouse kick which in TKD they use the feet (as you would be wearing shoes in a SD situation) with the Muay Thai shin kick. WTF sparring is also useful for:

    – counter attacking/ reading your opponent
    – explosiveness
    – precision
    – use of space in the octagon/fighting area, distancing
    – speed and power (WTF IS FULL CONTACT)
    – footwork

    If a WTF practitioner improves his punching and grappling I’m sure he would give any MMAer a run for his money if he uses the kicks to his advantage.
    Dan Hardy himself has stated that WTF TKD has helped him in the octagon:

    “I would say quite a lot of it, actually. Certainly a lot of the footwork and the movement. With taekwondo being an Olympic sport, and it being based on scoring points, you have to be very quick to move in and out and score your points without getting scored on. So I think a lot of the footwork that I use, moving around the Octagon, moving into strike and then getting back out again, I think a lot of it was taken from taekwondo.

    “And all the way through my career I’ve never really taken too many shots in fights, kind of similar to Machida, I think that’s because of the footwork and the timing of throwing the strikes from traditional styles like taekwondo and karate. So it’s been very useful to me. Obviously I’ve had to adapt a few things to suit MMA because with taekwondo it’s very easy to get punched in the face and get taken down, so certain things have changed but I have taken a lot from it definitely.”

    “You can watch my fights. I’m always pretty light on my feet and that’s from years of competing in taekwondo, especially as it became an Olympic sport the fighters I was coming up against were getting faster, so I had to adapt, but that was the point where they were just too fast.”

    http://blogs.mirror.co.uk/wrestling-wwe-ufc-mma/2009/06/dan-hardy-exclusive—a-lot-of.html

    As well as Dan Hardy here is a list of MMAers who have taken Taekwondo, many of them starting with it.

    Dan Hardy
    Bas Rutten
    Anderson Silva
    Cung Le

    Can’t be that bad then ey???

    I practice WTF Taekwondo, amateur boxing and MMA

    • freakychinaman Says:

      Thank you Spud, I enjoyed reading your ermmm “post” very much 😛 Why can’t we get more people like you around.

      Anyways, I guess out of respect for you and your efforts I should admit that I don’t really think TKD is that bad. I actually started this post to be funny, and really, who wants a well rounded argument in a blog post? With this now said I’m probably gonna get a lot less hate-mail which will be unfortunate because I find them hilarious 😛

      However, the TKD sparring still annoys me in the sense that it’s pretty much to ensure the players don’t get hurt. You have all that gear on and you still can’t punch to the head; and no leg kicks and grapples? In the end sparring is for you to practice fighting, if you’re not going to fight like that then why spar like that? To keep up with the times TKD needs to evolve, and I think for that everyone agrees on, and a point I think I’ve more or less reiterated several times in this post.

      Have a nice day 🙂

  13. Hello again

    well I would say alot of the posts in this thread are pretty well rounded, including yours at the start, I just wanted to follow the example instead of (like alot of threads) giving one sentence on why I think something is good or bad without anything to back it up.

    Taekwondo sparring is only one aspect of fighting, fighting with kicks.
    Just like boxing is for punches, just like BJJ is for groundfighting, just like wrestling is for grappling. One could argue that it is the least effective form of sparring because who uses kicks in a real fight right? You rarely see kicks because it is easier to punch someone and most people don’t know how to kick anyway (you could say the same about punching actually lol). Although kicks are less common in a fight they can END a fight, kicks are alot more powerful than punches and if used correctly and smartly can send an opponent to the floor. If I was to go back to MMA take a look at Cung Le Vs Shamrock for a perfect example of how kicks should be used in MMA to check and devastate your opponent. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWcD4TuSkrE

    WTF sparring is unique in the sense that no other martial art looks like it, it is a test of many things and although it looks less like fighting than other styles it is still a combat sport. If all martial arts and combat sports sparred like a real fight like you suggest, all martial arts would pretty much look the same.. Like I said in my previous post I wouldn’t recommend fighting in the street like you would in WTF sparring but there are quite a few of aspects from it you could use as well as using the non-sparring aspect of the martial art.

    So if i understand you correctly freakychinaman, would a martial art which doens’t incorporate any sparring at all annoy you more or less than WTF Taekwondo?

    Btw here are a few clips where WTF Taekwondoers do well against their opponents from different disciplines, you’ll notice that alot of their wins will come from taekwondo-style kicks such as ‘tornado’ kicks and back kicks, these are smart fighters using their style’s strengths to their advantage:

    WTF Taekwondo Vs Kickboxing

    WTF Taekwondo Vs Muay Thai

    WTF Taekowndo Vs Muay Thai (2)

    WTF Taekwondo Vs Karate

    WTF Taekwondo Vs Karate (2)

    i would appreciate any feedback 🙂

    cheers

    • freakychinaman Says:

      I am not at all saying kicks aren’t important, in fact I think I rely on my legs quite a lot in my fights (except for those semi-contact spars where I’m not really suppose to hurt people…). So no arguments there. However I would argue against the notion that all martial arts will ultimately be the same if they all focused on real street fights. There are different people out there with very different approaches when it comes to combat: some like punching, others ground fighting etc. People didn’t develop a martial art just to be different, it’s simply because those people find a particular style more to their liking (for whatever reason…). What makes them real is whether they can acknowledge the practicality of their moves and improve them, as well as their weaknesses and make up for them. What good is a martial art if you only take away a few things from the entire discipline? They might as well call it “introduction to kicking” if that’s the case.

      As to WTF sparring vs none at all… this depends on how aware the TKD guys knows that fairy kicks won’t knock someone out. Something I’ve observed through seeing TKD fighters sparring is that they become too comfortable with the fact they can score so many hits on someone with slap kicks without taking any hits. But the speed you see in a lot of those kicks pretty much comes from the quadriceps and without chambering which minimized the participation of the hips, so a lot of the time they tend to be as strong as a jab, but at the same time your insteps are nowhere near as strong as your fists. Not saying the kicks themselves are bad, but being a kick that does so little actual damage yet opening you up to so many weaknesses; using it ALL the time seems too dangerous. Now back to the matter at hand, a person that kicks ass in the WTF sparring is more likely to pick a fight, kick the other guy 50 times, then gets beaten to a pulp… at least the guy that hasn’t sparred before will be more defensive and won’t have a huge ego to defend. But in the end I think I’ll have more respect for a person that’s at least good at the sport rather than the guy who can just do patterns and break a few boards in mid-air.

      P.S. I’d love to watch the videos but I’m a bit tight on download limit at the moment, give me some time for it to renew before I get a chance to watch them.

      Cheers~

  14. “However I would argue against the notion that all martial arts will ultimately be the same if they all focused on real street fights. There are different people out there with very different approaches when it comes to combat: some like punching, others ground fighting etc. People didn’t develop a martial art just to be different, it’s simply because those people find a particular style more to their liking (for whatever reason…).”

    Most martial arts focus on street fights to some degree, it is why alot of them where formed. It is the sparring which will only take some aspects of fighting as to minimize the damage done to the practitioners, some martial arts go further than others in this respect. Whereas before all martial artists might have been warriors or soldiers who werent bothered about getting hurt, nowadays most all have jobs and families to go to and for those who want to compete might want to minimize the risk of injury when they go out and compete there should be a MA for everyone out there but anyone who practices an MA can’t expect never to get hurt this includes taekwondo where the KOs are often more devastating than alot of MAs/combat sports as the most powerful weapon of the body is mostly used with more points for even more powerful kicks such as the jumping back kicks or the jumping spinning kicks (click here to see what I mean(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i37NOUTOoPg&feature=related). MMA and other styles of martial arts such as Kajukenbo are the closest thing I can think of as the ‘real’ thing

    “What good is a martial art if you only take away a few things from the entire discipline?”

    The sparring aspect does only take a few things from the whole martial art but does that mean it’s no good? WTF Taekwondo is a showcase of kicks, and like I said before Boxing is a showcase of punches with less possible moves than WTF sparring does that mean it’s no good? Even with boxing I found that WTF sparring has helped me for example I am light on my feet meaning I can move in and out more easily.

    “but at the same time your insteps are nowhere near as strong as your fists.”

    yes but your legs are alot stronger than your arms. And you don’t have to kick with your instep, both instep and shin can be used for even more power.

    A well versed Taekwondo fighter should know what is effective in a street fight and what is not, just like a wrestler should know he shouldn’t crouch down with his arms wide open in a real confrontation, just like a Kung Fu fighter wouldn’t use his crane stance and a BJJ fighter wouldn’t start the fight lying on his back waiting for his opponent to enter his guard.
    Why do you use the terms “fairy kicks” and “slap kicks”? WTF sparring is full contact, you can hit your opponent as hard as you can and yes you can knock them out or wind the fuck out of them, WTF practitioners might even have more experience than some martial arts hitting as hard as they want on an opponent as the body armour allows them to even when sparring at the dojang.
    I would disagree about not using the hips, although angle kicks are more common than roundhouse kicks in sparring they still incorporate use of the hips (although to a lesser extent than the full roundhouse kick which means they are less powerful.. but can still cause damage!!). I would disagree with you regarding chambers, chambers are taught in all kicks in taekwondo, sparring or not, this is because the chamber makes it harder for the opponent to read what your kick will be, will it be a roundhouse? side-kick? feint? twisting kick? high? low? these kicks are less powerful than the Muay Thai kicks which have minimal chambering but are more deceptive and quicker.
    Why do you assume a WTF practitioner would be more likely to start a fight?? and why do you assumer he would have a huge ego?? Like all martial arts TKD students are taught NOT to fight if they can help it, if a student decides to start fights it is not the fault of the martial art but his and his only.

    Cheers dude

    • freakychinaman Says:

      “Like I said in my previous post I wouldn’t recommend fighting in the street like you would in WTF sparring but there are quite a few of aspects from it you could use as well as using the non-sparring aspect of the martial art”

      That’s what I was referring to when I said that you shouldn’t just have only a few things to take away in a martial art.

      And I’m not saying the insteps are the only point of impact, merely saying that they’re used often. And like I said, a lot of those types of kicks only use the quads, so you’re not actually giving that much power and you can probably give a stronger punch. And even if your legs are stronger than your arms, the limiting factor will always be how strong the actual point of impact is; no matter how strong you are, if you snap your foot you still lose. And I was actually claiming the opposite regarding the chambering. I was saying how they often compromise their chambering. How could a kick with no chambering be stronger than a kick with chambering? (and I don’t consider ‘slap kicks’ as a degrading term… ‘fairy kicks’ is but like like I said, merely an example)

      And the whole “less likely to run from a fight” and “bigger ego” thing is just an example of a scenario when I’d think you’d be better off not have been sparring. It is not an assumption of all WTF practitioners. The example I gave was just to say that someone good at the sparring is not necessarily good at fighting, but obviously that someone may be deluded into thinking he can fight will be more likely to fight than a person that doesn’t.

      “nowadays most all have jobs and families to go to and for those who want to compete might want to minimize the risk of injury when they go out and compete there should be a MA for everyone out there”

      This is exactly the point I argue against the most. Why are we changing martial arts so that people get hurt less? We bubble-wrap our kids, our pets, our women (I’m not being sexist here, but we just don’t seem to care about our men…), But do we really need to do the same for people wanting to learn how to fight? I know you talked about the dangers of back-kicks to the head and all, but like I mentioned in the capoeira post, able to give hard blows doesn’t make a martial art effective. And being knocked out by kicks isn’t exclusive for TKD.

      If you only do a martial art to compete in sparring tournaments, is it still a martial art? I’d say that’s a sport, and this debate will need to restart 😛

      Cheers

  15. I don’t see how you can say a punch can be more powerful than a kick with your instep.. and how they only kick using the quads?? this is the first time i have every heard this claim i am curious as to how you got this information. If you ask any thai boxer or MMAer they will almost definately tell you they roundhouse with their shin with minimal chambering, this is because when you chamber the power of the kick is divided coming partly from your hip and partly from when you flex your kick out to your opponent whereas with thai kicks the power comes almost entirely from the hip, thus giving more power but less speed.

    “the limiting factor will always be how strong the actual point of impact is; no matter how strong you are, if you snap your foot you still lose”
    You contradict yourself here, you claim that takeowndo does not use chambers but here you say they ‘snap’ their kicks which by that I assume you mean a chamber kick? Apart from in the forms where chambering is done before and after you hit the target, Taekwondo teaches to use chamber before you hit the target kicking through it and putting you foot straight down afterwards.
    I disagree, someone’s kick whether it be from the shin, instep or ball of the foot will always be stronger than his punch. although the fist is harder than the instep, the foot is heavier than a fist and the fact that the leg is 3 times stronger than the arms will override this. Are you saying a punch by a boxer who using gloves will be less powerful than that of an untrained fighter who is bare knuckled? The reason why alot of MAs kick with their instep instead of the harder shinbone is because MAs are geared towards self defence, you would most likely be wearing shoes in a SD situation giving your instep protection and making it heavier/harder (not if your wearing converses lol)

    “The example I gave was just to say that someone good at the sparring is not necessarily good at fighting, but obviously that someone may be deluded into thinking he can fight will be more likely to fight than a person that doesn’t.”
    I think It is much more likely that someone who does a martial art/combat sport and spars who can fight or who thinks they can fight will NOT start fights as they have nothing to prove. One could also argue that the person who practices a non-sparring martial art is more likely to start a fight as he will be more curious of his fighting abilities on the street. I believe sparring is an important aspect of martial arts as it gets it’s practitioners used to going up against another resisting person, even if this martial art only uses a few aspects of real fighting it is up the practitioner to adapt it in a fight/SD situation and also use what he knows from the non-sparring aspect of his/her martial art which would work in that situation.

    But even with all the protective gear you could argue that: More gear=Less injury=More full contact sparring + more time to train. Getting hurt less in a martial art doesn’t always mean you don’t learn how to fight. BJJ is considered a ‘safe’ sport too as there is no hitting but has constantly proven it’s effectiveness, you don’t see alot of BJJers coming out of training with black eyes do you? People are being bubble wrapped in today’s society and I do sometimes wish TKD allowed more in it’s sparring but it is still a martial art which can teach you how to defend yourself.
    I agree with you on this, if a practitioner only practices the sparring aspect of his martial art, then I would say he practicing a combat/martial sport and not the martial art but a good martial artist should practice all areas of the art. But then again I think of others with a heavy influence on sport like Judo and BJJ especially and people still call them martial arts.

    cheers

    • freakychinaman Says:

      Chambering is when you go back to your basic fighting/ready stances/position, often allowing you to reset your body to to point where it can optimally produce force (or whatever you’re trying to optimize). This includes things like pulling your arm back while you punch with the other etc. Some of the quick sequential kicks, especially double/triple kicks where you don’t put the foot back onto the ground doesn’t allow the hips to reset, and consequently you can’t put as much power into it as the last, the only more consistant force production will be your quads, since you can still snap your legs back and forth without touching the ground. The shin kicks you see for muay thai is not because it doesn’t chamber (hips + quads being stronger than just quads just doesn’t logically made sense does it?), but rather the shins are closer to the body and you take out the limitations of your knee and ankle being weaker than the hip joint (same reason why you get a lot more power with your elbows than a punch). The quick muay thai kicks make up for the lost speed of taking out the quads by utilizing their calves a lot more (same way you use them to launch your knees), which then generates more power (your hip flexors are generally slow fibers so they generate lots of power but doesn’t have as much explosive force as say the calf or the quads, that’s why you need a slight push off to get things started or at least a longer time for the kick to reach).

      Now back to the issue about punches being able to be stronger than an instep kick. Even if your leg is way stronger than your arms, a well executed punch with a good stance and hip movement CAN produce a lot more power than an insteps kick which pretty much relies on momentum (you can knock someone back with a punch a lot easier than to do it with an insteps kick). And no matter how much power any object can produce, the only real point that matters is the weakest link. For the leg in kicking, this is the toughness of the insteps, and strength of the ankle, knee and hip joints (in that order pretty much); and the toughness of the knuckles, and strength of the wrist, elbow and shoulder joint for the arm. So the weakest link will be the insteps toughness for the legs and wrist strength for the arms (at least that’s for me). The wrist strength you can train up gradually, but strengthening of the metatarsals to withstand strong forces it wasn’t mean to is a LOT harder. The idea is like trying to whack someone with a small mallet vs a cue stick: you get a lot less momentum in the mallet but you get full force transfer, while your cue still has a huge moment arm but it’ll only give as much force the cue tip can handle before it snaps.

      I think I’ll just leave out the ‘sparring vs no sparring’ debate for now, there’s no definitive answer and we’ve listed out points, can’t really do more than that 🙂

      And of course if you make training safer you can get more done, I agree with that (I hate resting for months because I dislocated or broke something as much as anyone…), but it is something that martial artists need to learn, in fact having it less safe lets you learn how to protect yourself, and lets you shape your fighting style. Grappling arts like BJJ and judo are very good at being safe while being effective because you get a lot more control in grappling. You can lock and submit without having to hurt someone much, and you can gradually pinpoint exactly when a person can’t take it anymore. But striking arts have a lot less liberty and control. If you hit you hit hard and fast and it damn well should hurt, and at the same time it’s a lot harder to judge when the opponent is moving as well and your adrenaline is pumping. This distinction is why a lot of the time in MMA (especially UFC) submissions are the more common wins, since you don’t get hurt as much and once you have the right position you’re set. However this is usually a lot more tiring and time consuming and it’s harder to get lucky… and the fact you’re on the ground. So if you’re fighting more than one person it becomes a bit more of a challenge. But no doubt I like BJJ and judo and I really like to learn more of it (because my grappling is honestly terrible….). However judo is also one of the martial arts that are bordering into sports and really depends heavily on the school now. In the end, I don’t think many people will go about redefining a traditional martial art just yet (unless it becomes really crap… heck, drunken fist is still a martial art…), but the point is whether people will still follow its style and philosophies in a fight that one day will concern the well-being of themselves and people around them.

      Cheers~

  16. “Chambering is when you go back to your basic fighting/ready stances/position, often allowing you to reset your body to to point where it can optimally produce force (or whatever you’re trying to optimize).”

    I was always told a chamber is the raising of the knee with the lower part of the leg tucked in and can be done both before and after a kick is made. What you are describing is simply going back to ready stance. But I am slightly confused as to why you say chambering (by your definition) makes a kick stronger if it only means going back to ready stance? how does going back to fighting stance have a bearing on the power of the kick that was just made?

    “Some of the quick sequential kicks, especially double/triple kicks where you don’t put the foot back onto the ground doesn’t allow the hips to reset, and consequently you can’t put as much power into it as the last, the only more consistant force production will be your quads, since you can still snap your legs back and forth without touching the ground.”

    These high speed angle kicks you speak of obviously aren’t as powerful as single roundhouses but contrary to what you say the correct and most effective way to pull these kicks off are by rotating your hips as much as possible and by putting the foot down on the floor as quickly as possible so that the other leg can kick better. These kicks aren’t made to be effective on the street but they still demonstrate a huge level of control, speed and balance.

    “The shin kicks you see for muay thai is not because it doesn’t chamber (hips + quads being stronger than just quads just doesn’t logically made sense does it?), but rather the shins are closer to the body and you take out the limitations of your knee and ankle being weaker than the hip joint (same reason why you get a lot more power with your elbows than a punch). The quick muay thai kicks make up for the lost speed of taking out the quads by utilizing their calves a lot more (same way you use them to launch your knees), which then generates more power (your hip flexors are generally slow fibers so they generate lots of power but doesn’t have as much explosive force as say the calf or the quads, that’s why you need a slight push off to get things started or at least a longer time for the kick to reach).”

    i disagree with you again here, i didn’t say hips & quads were stronger than just quads… but how can you say that they aren’t? the hip is where most of the power comes from.. how can the quads by themselves be more powerful than if the hips were added to it??
    Thai kicks don’t chamber as like i said before chambering makes a kick less powerful, they ‘throw’ their leg at the target like swinging a baseball bat, the power coming mostly from the hip. I also don’t see how you say the quads aren’t used for thai kicks? why wouldn’t you use the the most powerful part of your body in a kick? it doesn’t make sense.

    “Even if your leg is way stronger than your arms, a well executed punch with a good stance and hip movement CAN produce a lot more power than an insteps kick which pretty much relies on momentum (you can knock someone back with a punch a lot easier than to do it with an insteps kick).”

    Kicks rely on more things than momentum, the same as a punch a lot of the power comes from the hip except the driving force behind the foot is much stronger, the fact that the fist is harder is overridden by this, my boxing example makes this very obvious?

    “The idea is like trying to whack someone with a small mallet vs a cue stick: you get a lot less momentum in the mallet but you get full force transfer, while your cue still has a huge moment arm but it’ll only give as much force the cue tip can handle before it snaps.”

    This cannot apply to this punch vs kicks debate as a mallet is heavier than a cue stick, but actually the leg is heavier than the arm and the striking part of the mallet is much harder and bigger than that of a cue stick, but this is so far off from proportion what the fist is really like in proportion to the instep so the example you are giving doesn’t quite add up…

    “in fact having it less safe lets you learn how to protect yourself, and lets you shape your fighting style”

    Regardless of what martial art you practice you will get hurt sooner or later, it really depends on the person whether or not he learns to protect himself by getting hurt or not in my opinion. BJJ is even more of a sport that Judo, they do not have katas and their belt ranking system is based solely on competition performance. it doesn’t matter whether you are in a martial art or combat sport, what matters is that you enjoy it and that it can offer you the skills you need to protect yourself.

    thanks

    • freakychinaman Says:

      The chambering is for the next (or first…) kick. Doesn’t necessarily have to be your fighting stance, but at least the ready stance for that move. And I’m not saying that the quads are stronger than the hips, I’m saying that those angle kicks reduce the power from the hips after the first kick whereby the quads become your only consistent mode of power, thus reducing the power overall.

      As to the shin kicks bit, I say the quads aren’t used as much in the throwing of the kick, that’s for the hip flexors (mainly the iliopsoas group if you care). The quads are involved in the later stages right before the strike and just to keep the knee stable throughout the kick.

      …. now since I think we have enough combined words to make a thesis, so I can’t remember which boxing example you made. But insteps and shin kicks do mainly rely on momentum, I mean you won’t kick someone then AFTER the initial contact push him to the ground (though you probably can with a side kick).

      The mallet and cue stick example is just to elaborate the point that any energy transfer depends on it’s weakest component, I can think of another 2 objects but the theory is still the same.

      When in sparring with all the armor and padding and rules limitation, sometimes you can’t imagine kicking someone in certain places can actually hurt you or at least open you up to risks that are protected by rules (I mean how many times have you had the urge to kick someone in the nuts because his stance was too wide or his head kicks were too slow?). Obviously it’s important that the art helps you to protect yourself… and I guess if it does that you’ll enjoy yourself naturally… but I think the distinction of whether it is a martial art or combat sport is important. If they say they’re a sport then I have nothing to say; if they say they’re a martial art…. well I’ll rant on like hell on the internet 😛

      Cheers

  17. As it was mentioned above, it’s all about the fighter, not the art itself. Even though taekwondo doesn’t allow punches to the face, it still requires you to develop technique and strenght with punches. A WTF taekwondo practitioner obviously can’t develop the same puch abilities during a fight like other heavier martial arts such as muay thai, which is probably the most effective combat art for allowing and using so many body parts and focusing on body preparation and power.

    I’ve been in something similar to a street fight once, but it was quite stupid and the other guy probably had no experience but wanted to look good anyway. I’m not the sort to go out and get into fights, in fact I hate that a lot. I’m pretty light and look weak and whenever there’s an argue the other guys think they have supperiority because they’re stronger. I surprised myself to see that I actually took a direct headbutt to my chin out of nowhere that made me look at the sky for a split second but it did little damage and I was able to react. Tried to punch him but missed because he stepped back. He tried to punch but I could clearly see it. When I noticed I couldn’t reach him so easily with punches I raised my leg. He was lucky enough because if I raised the second kick to his head it would be over. But since I am not experienced in real fights, my reaction was not the greatest. However, as soon as I kicked him for the first time with a single kick and hit him hard enough, he seemed like he wanted to give up the fight.

    WTF sparring is a sports style that mainly focuses on speed and strategy, plus it requires a very good physical preparation. It doesn’t matter if you’re going to knock your opponent or just hit him with a medium light kick as much as you score. You can’t judge taekwondo alone on that. In regular training there are many techniques to be learned and those that should be used in street are the strong and effective ones, not those fancy multiple kicks used in sparring to get points, which are a little stronger than they look but defifnitely not that effective in real life situations.

    As for self defense, I don’t know what kind of training you guys have, but we do train self defense, and not just a little bit. Where I practice we sometimes have 1 hour lessons of self defense several times a week. And not just that, also physical preparation, leg and arm techniques, tactical sparring and stretching/flexibility. I do agree that the majority of people who practice with me can’t use takewondo effectively (not even close) and that’s a fact. They only practice because they like, not because they want to to out and get into fights – they just don’t take it too seriously. But then there are others who take it more seriousle. I even know a guy who is so good with self defense that he once even faced 5 black guys, avoided being stolen and came out without a scratch – don’t ask me how he managed that. I deffinitely wouldn’t be able to to that.

    Some people complain that WTF figters always keep the guard down. That’s quite true, my master keeps insisting that we should keep the hands up during matches, but it’s more important to evade to prevent damage than defending. I’ve trained with some guys that were so fast that it was pretty hard to react and even if I blocked I would just get hurt. I start my fights with my hands raised, but as the fight goes I want t become faster and keeping them high all the time seems to limit my speed and attacks.

    I’ve done some other martial arts, but settled with WTF taekwondo. No matter how good or bad people talk about it, it’s the one that I like to practice the most. It may not be the most efective, but gives me enough preparation and I do my best to practice it the right way, keeping my hands high, increasing the power of my kicks, developing all sorts of kicks but always learning which one’s the best and most efective. Overrall, I like it quite a bit, probably more than all other sports and martial arts I’ve practiced, so even if I don’t think it’s fair to say it sucks (and a lot of people say that), all I care is that I really like it and will keep practicing it.

  18. freakychinaman Says:

    Thanks Pete for the input,

    The self defense stuff is good sometimes, but I’ve always been annoyed how it’s somehow like a separate teaching to your normal lessons. And the self defense moves themselves can sometimes be ridiculously complicated for you to actually execute in a real situation (talk about this a bit in my ‘women’s self defence’ post, so I can’t be bothered restating it here).

    The guard thing I’m sort of 50/50. I like to be light on my feet and having a slightly looser guard helps me throw punches quicker as well as pulling off a lot of other moves quicker. But I do realised being hit is inevitable, and you can’t react quick enough for a good straight jab to the face, so I’d at least recommend keeping one hand up all the time… saves a lot of nose bleeds and sore cheek bones…

    We’re similar in the sense that I’m not a big guy, I like fighting mid range (which I assume is what most TKD practitioners are), and I don’t like getting hit (I don’t mind the pain… but I just don’t like it :P). So I tend to be a bit lighter on my feet and my body slightly more lax during fights. It makes me quicker but when you don’t react quick enough you’re open to things like sweeps and you get hurt a lot easier. It’s up to the person of course, but I’ve learnt a bit more self-conservation over the years… and it’ll definitely benefit me in the long run 😛

    And don’t get me wrong, TKD was fun (with all the cool kicks, slapping those big pieces of ham :P). But I was looking for the more practical side. If you are doing it because you enjoy it and you know the limitations then fair enough, I don’t see a problem there. Hope you enjoy your training.

    Cheers

    [P.S. probably don’t talk about the “black men mugging my friend” story too much, I don’t want some random dick to start talking about racism here… though I guess this post will be the least likely for that to occur… 😛 ]

  19. I guess we can agree to disagree on these points about quads etc… as I don’t think I can say anything more without repeating myself but at the end of the day Taekwondo sparring has got its limitations but so do other martial arts and combat sports which are considered just as effective.

    Taekwondo is criticized mostly by the people who watch it on the Olympics and who don’t really know that taekwondo is so much more than this, they critize their stances but when have you heard them critize a wrestlers stance? their hands are by their knees too! Taekwondo IS a martial art and includes SO much more than sparring which some people don’t even know, they seem to think olympic taekwondo=taekwondo(false) in the same way that olympic boxing= amateur boxing (true) so they fail to understand that it’s a martial art AS WELL as a combat sport like nearly every other martial art out there.

    cheers

  20. Taekwondo Beats Muay Thai in this clip:

    Taekwondo Beats Kickboxing in this clip:

    Sorry it’s all about the martial artist because even though the clips you showed had taekwondo practitioners losing guess what? Martial artists and fitghters lose in every style all the time.

  21. Your reasoning is very faulty. Basically TKD sucks because 1. It’s a sport 2. There is useless skills in it and 3. You have videos of TKD guys losing.

    Well guess what? Muay Thai is a sport. Muay Thai teaches useless stuff too like the ritual dance thing done before every fight. There are even more videos of MMA guys, Boxers, and Muay Thai practitioners getting knocked out than TKD guys. According to your faulty logic that means MMA and Boxers and Muay Thai sucks worse than TKD because there are more videos of them getting the shit kicked out of them.

    • freakychinaman Says:

      1. The entire argument is that is sucks as a martial art because is focuses on the sport too much instead of… well… hurting people (you can probably beat someone with minimal amount of pain, but lets save all of us that time and let me make that generalization.

      2. Well for one I consider the ritual dancing a tradition not a skill. And I’m not saying that other martial arts don’t have useless skills, just that TKD has more.

      3. The count isn’t on how many times you see them lose, but more importantly how many times you see them win. And I’m pretty sure I said the videos were to illustrate, not statistical evidence; I mean if I showed you the search results of ‘TKD losing” vs ‘karate losing’ then yes, you can critisize the logic. So as a note to anyone else out there that wants to show me 50 videos of TKD kicking ass or muay thai losing… cut it out! It’ll only drain up more of my internet quota (and yes, we in the land of cheap-asses have such a thing….), unless of course it’s really cool 🙂

  22. I just started taking Taekwondo but we are also learning about a lot of punches and also what to do if you’re on the ground because most fights end up on well… The ground lol. I think my teachers focus more on the self defense part of Taekwondo than the sport of it. I also have been wrestling in high school so this helps me with the fighting on the ground part. I wouldn’t say that Takewondo is “100% useless”, nor would I say any other martial art is “useless” they just all have their different styles and those styles have gains and faults.

    Good post but I have to disagree with your opinion though, and not because I’m in Taekwondo and just standing up for it but because I don’t believe that any martial art is useless.

  23. R C Schueler Says:

    i didn’t have time 2 watch videos u posted im sure that Taekwon-Do in those v’s SUCKED. I have been teaching Traditional TK-D 4 over 40 yrs. Todays so called TKD dose suck. I’M ashamed of what has happened to this Great Art. But if you now any thing about TK-D you no that there are many Imitators and made the public think that it sucks but it don’t. I personally trained with the founder Gen. Choi Hong Hi. let me educate you. During WW2. Gen. Choi became a POW and created this art behind Bars. Times where very bad in the world and he told me that the DO of Taekwon was created first. This DO was developed so that he and many other POWS learned how to live with the constant mental and phisicale abuse of the Camp. Then he began to develope Taekwon. Traditional TK-D is a Modern Day Military Combat Fighting System. Not the CRAP that people see today. Gen. Choi trained in many styles of martial arts before TKD was developed. From ShotoKan Karate to Judo Jujitsu. People dont understand this FACT. So when he started to Develope TK-D he used the best Of all the arts that would make TK-D a complete fighting System so that He would be able to defend himself against the Enemy of WW2 FACT. Traditional TK-D is from jumping in the air 2 fighting on the ground. Gen. Choi told me that most fighting ends up on the ground but if you are fast enough you can end it standing up with one Kick. If not you better have your ground work together or DIE FACT. Yes Sport tkd SUCKS drop your hands and kick Round house Round House Round House like a little FAGIT! WTF SUCKS FAKE TKD NOT REAL. I’M so sorry that the world is judgng TKD by those ASSHOLES. Instructors need to Teach Traditional TK-D Most have no concept what it even is. In my school we teach Traditional Taekwon-Do 4 LIFE. Ground Fighting at least twice a week. Than Patterns and lots of Hand Tequ. its in the System. Free sparring that takes you down to the mat if you dont watch out. We even Tap out to stop the match. How about that it is in our system Founded By Gen. Choi Hong Hi we can fight after all. Don’t let the other ASSHOLES turn you off of Traditional Tarkwon-Do. Something to think About. Your’s in the Martial Arts GM Schueler.

  24. Really? You guys really think that TKD sucks???? What the FUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!????????????????????????? Are you guys fucking insane???? Yes, part of its a sport, and part of it is self defense. But the self defense CAN be effective. I have afriend who almost killed someone who tryed to mug him using tkd techniques. You cannot say that ANY typpe of martial art is ineffective. Every martial art is useful, and as for “fancy kicking”, if you so much as fucking saw a god damned TKD 720 kick you run fucking crying to your mommy. So go fuck your selves.

    • freakychinaman Says:

      Ok, I’m pretty sure I’ve said this in like 5 other replies I’ve posted for people here now but I guess I can’t expect anyone to read them all, so I’ll say it again. Martial arts are essentially weapons, in any case whatever weapon you have you’re bound to have an advantage over someone who doesn’t. Here, I’m saying TKD is just a crappy weapon.

      As for the 720 kick… well if I ever saw one that actually did the 2.3 spins in the air I’d be impressed… though practically I don’t much use for it. Fancy, you can probably build up some good momentum, but you use up all your abilities to balance just to keep yourself from falling, you can’t back up your kick with footing, and your opponent probably has to be phased out and confused for you to pull it off since it’s hard enough to aim at stationary targets. either way I can’t say I find it intimidating, just very cool 😛

  25. The bottom line here is combat effectiveness. It’s bad enough that TKD sparring lacks realism (both WTF and ITF) but their ‘self defence’ techniques are laughable from what I’ve seen. One step sparring is a joke and anyone who thinks they can use that to defend themselves is very much mistaken. Same goes for forms, this traditional crap is on a par with learning an old dance, not effective at all and makes you look like a dickhead haha

    I quit doing TKD recently to concentrate on boxing and MMA. Yes both are sports but that’s what makes them realistic combat arts as the emphasis is on sparring, these guys (unlike most TKD guys) know how it feels to get hit hard and I have no doubt both boxers and mma-ers would own a taekwondo guy both in the street and in the ring.

    You can argue all that bullshit about TKD learning ‘illegal’moves and being able to kill with a throat strike etc.. seems pointless to have a martial art based around illegal moves like these as you hardly need much training to administer them. What’s more is that a boxer would probably be more effective using an eye poke and throat strike as he would be better at judging distance, his arms would be stronger, he would be more accurate etc.. and he would be used to real live sparring.

    But the truth is there is much worse than TKD what really shocks me is those martial arts who don’t believe in sparring and who delude themselves into thinking they could defend themselves effectively, full of fat old men and women who have been tricked into thinking this. I dunno about you guys but i just cringe whenever i hear someone trains in preying mantis kung fu or any joke system like that.

  26. Chinaman, judging martial art from Youtube ( LMAO).
    If you want real Taekwondo. Check out ITF Taekwondo vs Kyokushin.
    There are hardcore Taekwondo practitioners kicked muay thai fighter, karate fighter, kung fu fighter. Don’t judge martial art from few inexperience fighter. That is very dangerous.

  27. freakychinaman Says:

    I must say, it gets annoying after a while when people don’t get the idea of the videos as a tool to get the point across, not the basis of this post. So seriously, stop referring me to videos and the next guy who says I’m judging martial arts of a couple of youtube vids will have their genitals rot off and die of gangrene

  28. chinaman, your showing off some Praying Mantis Kung Fu proverb ( LMAO).

  29. To put it simply… The most effective martial arts/combat sports are the ones which have their students use techniques against live resisting opponents.

    IT IS THE ONLY WAY TO KNOW IF SOMETHING WORKS.

    seems obvious but if you look at the crap people are learning nowadays it still hasn’t sunk in for some people. They learn overcomplicated “self defence” bullshit against someone who is letting them do it.

    Also, having the most “tools” at your disposal will prepare you for almost any hand to hand situation.

    That is why most “traditional martial arts” will not prepare you for a real fight. (lack of sparring, focused on only one or a few aspects of fighting).

    • freakychinaman Says:

      Though you did cover your bases with the quotations and you’re mainly attacking the schools that just teach you forms, I guess I still should put up a defense in saying that I still like traditional martial arts (mind you I am doing karate right now… though admittedly put it off for a while for studies…). The idea of the forms is just a whole bunch of moves put into a flowing sequence, so you can extract moves from it and makes it easier to pass it on. Of course there are a lot of moves you’ll never use but you can still get inspiration of the basic idea to add to your own arsenal. Problem with a lot of these martial arts are they teach forms and sparring like two are separate things (for example when you see a lot of Hapkido fights).

      …and yes, half the self-defense stuff is bullshit…… I’m pretty sure I’ve made a similar rant somewhere else already so I’ll just leave it at that….

  30. MMA, Muay Thai, Kick boxing, Wrestling and BJJ are the most effective forms of self-defence. end of.

  31. and traditional boxing

  32. Most effective Martial Arts: ITF Taekwondo, Hapkido, Hwarangdo, Ship Pal Ki, Korean Wrestling SSirum, Korean Archery, Korean yudo.

    • freakychinaman Says:

      …ok, seriously….. ARCHERY? I’m happy to let all the others slide with the obvious nationalist bias, but in this day and age how the hell is archery in any way effective…… unless you’re Rambo… in the jungle… with explosive arrowheads?

    • No mention of WTF? Not really surprising..

  33. chinaman, stand in front. I will demonstrate ancient art form is as dangerous in modern day.

    • freakychinaman Says:

      ok, how about I rephrase the question: how is it more effective than a gun? (costs and ease to acquire aside)

  34. Lets test it out. Like a idiot carry a gun. I will carry archery. Lets see who can pin down your forehead. If your bullet misses and my arrow pins down your thick head. You will know or not know archery is more effective than a gun.

    • freakychinaman Says:

      Ok, considering I don’t have a gun not do I intend on blowing someone’s brains out with it, I’m going to lay down my argument like all internet geeks do.

      First thing to consider when thinking about the effectiveness of a weapon is to be able to access it, in nowadays being able to conceal it may be a good idea considering we have cops on the streets… now I’d say it’s probably a bit easier to carry a pistol around rather than an “archery”. To shoot an arrow you also need room to pull the bow, whereas for most guns you just need the room to reach and squeeze the trigger. The entire physics of the projectile of the arrow and bullet is also a key factor, for one: the arrow is much slower! It’s actually possible to dodge an arrow after it’s launched (not saying I can..), whereas the last time I heard someone dodge a bullet it was the matrix… The fact that it’s slower and is bigger than a bullet means the distance in which it goes straight is MUCH shorter, meaning at longer ranges it’s much harder to aim, especially if the target is moving… and you’re in the city or indoors where you can’t shoot high…

      Anyways, I don’t even know why I’m attempting to argue against this, maybe I’m just trying to make common sense common again or I’m seriously just that bored… either way, not saying I don’t like archery, actually signing up for it in a month or so, but seriously if 50 guys come at you with glocks, 9 out of 10 times you’ll grab the AK… and that time you tried to prove me wrong….. well the Darwin awards has to go to someone 🙂

      • Don’t under estimate traditional art as archery. Arrow has known in the past and present. It can crack open thick headed skull like watermelon. Don’t give retarded theory like ” what if I had a gun theory”. If your a idiot want to get arrested carry a gun.

      • freakychinaman Says:

        (ok for some reason it won’t let me reply to your comment so I’ll have to post this above you..)

        well…. I’ve laid down my argument (which from your reply shows you didn’t actually read it at all or you just can’t convert the words into meaning), and I can’t argue against logic too well. So I’m just going to rest my case because I’ve slammed my head into the wall too many times by now…

  35. lol its hard to know if this guy is either taking the mick or is actually a full blown retard

  36. yeah, jimmy the mick. Like your some Martial Art Expert??? I guess your full blown retard.

  37. chinaman, I guess your perfect example.

  38. china man, don’t stereotype martial arts. Every Martial Art around the world has strong and weak point. There is no such thing called strongest Martial Art. I have studied many different kinds of Martial Art system to tell you. You cannot match Nuclear Weapon called ” M.O.A.B.” Mother Of All Bombs or simply nuclear bomb. This is probably the reason why North Korea wants nuclear bomb badly. Now back to Martial Art discussion. Taekwondo does not suck. There are plenty Taekwondo expert who kicked Karate practitioners Ass and Kung Fu practitioners Ass. I realized people who writes this kind of Idiotic Internet Articles are the one. Who received Ass Kicking by Taekwondo Practitioners 99.9 percent those are the people who makes martial art comparison with Taekwondo.

    • freakychinaman Says:

      So you can’t make a decent argument against the gun case so decided to switch topics?… just checking.

      I’m not matching something like TKD and a minigun, they are totally different things and different purposes, but the invention of firearms were made to replace the bow and arrow, and has since made it obsolete, and this is reality. Heck, a nuclear bomb isn’t actually that useful of a weapon considering it just destroys everything and renders the area useless for generations… trust me when I say people use guns a lot more than nuclear bombs.

      As for the martial arts argument: so… there’s no such thing as the strongest martial art other than “ITF Taekwondo, Hapkido, Hwarangdo, Ship Pal Ki, Korean Wrestling SSirum, Korean Archery, Korean yudo” right? What a hypocrite……………..

  39. thats coz most types/schools of taekwondo, karate and kung fu suck ass. There IS such a thing as a best fighting system, it is the one which prepares it’s students in all forms of combat and test them regularly in live full contact sparring and contests.

  40. china man and jimmy you both should stroke each others ego and suck each others dick misinformed hypocrite fuck!!! If you guys don’t have basic acknowledge about Martial Arts. Don’t accuse me or other people being hypocrite.

  41. yeah, like you know?…….

  42. korean martial arts are bastardized versions of japanese martial arts. In fact ALL “traditional” martial arts are so far removed from what they once were

    • How is takkyun a bastardized for of a Japanese martial art? And what gives you the idea that it’s always Korea that’s influenced by Japan? Cultural proximity allowed for countless exchanges between the cultures for all of their histories

  43. jimmy your bastardized versions of Irish in fact all ” traditional” are so far removed from what they once were

  44. china man and jimmy just admit your both bastardized version of Karate practitioners who gotten Ass Kicked by Taekwondo system practitioners.

  45. i don’t particularly care for karate. Taekwondo are Karate are basically the same, except Taekwondo sparring is more sissified

  46. You probably think apple and orange are same. Right?! Your logic and concept about Taekwondo system tells me you have been ass kicked by Taekwondo practitioners so you have been sissified.

  47. I did WTF taekwondo for 5 years and got 1st dan black belt. It is the most popular choice of martial art not because it is effective but because it is SAFE.

    the difference between my mma gym and takeownod gym is astounding. simple: one gym trains fighters, the other trains faggots

  48. jimmy, you trained WTF Taekwondo for 5 years? and your black belt?? you answered yourself like a ” self made idiot”. simple: gym trains fighters, the other trains faggots. Wow, gumbo could other ” trains faggots” be you??

  49. haha

    they want to learn how to fight but by not getting hurt in the process= faggots.

    before martial arts used to be for the strong, now it is for the weak.

  50. This is just sad. Seriously now, how many GOOD people of taekwondo need to come here and bash your statements to bits to get you to understand? While the Olympic version is nice to watch, you will not see any GOOD schools focusing just on sparring. At my gym we train the traditional side of taekwondo, and its hands down effective. My instructor has been waiting for a few more 6th dan and up to come around town to help test him for his 5th. Him and the instructor before him would fight other martial artists and tear them apart. I would have figured that after all the ranting you would have gotten to the conclusion that its not the art that sucks, its the person that applies them. Most people who compete in tournaments are barely even brown belts who have no idea what their doing, or have barely been black belts for any length of time…

    • freakychinaman Says:

      I’ve made the same rebuttal about 3 times in this post now, though considering how lengthy this discussion has gone on I can’t expect anyone to actually read all of them, so I’ll put it down again. My main point isn’t that Taekwondo CAN’T be good, but when given a choice I’d choose something else. Much like if you get 2 guys to fight each other and you give one a rifle and the other a fork… if the guy with the fork is really smart and really good at it he does have a chance to take out the guy with the gun… but I’d much rather learn to get good with the gun. And probably more geared towards how the dojangs operate, the idea that when you make it to a considerably high rank like brown or black and you still have no idea what you’re doing, the standards are set too low in the first place and you just churn out more and more idiots out there that think they can take on the world because they can kick at head height, and it is already running down the hill at this point.

  51. Taekwondo is divided between two major groups WTF and ITF. If you want hardcore Taekwondo then take Taekwondo. If you want Olympic Taekwondo then take WTF. Taekwondo name of Korean Martial Art might be 60 years old. Korean Martial Art itself is 5 thousand years old. If you want discuss Korean Martial Arts be accurate what you want to discuss or compare. Plus Korean Martial Art such as Taekwondo can be very effective Martial Art.

    • freakychinaman Says:

      I don’t intend to rip on Korean martial arts as a whole since… well it’s irrational and impossible for one (much like the people the critisize kung fu… seriously it doesn’t work), and the only other ones I’m familiar with are Gumdo and Hapkido, which I have little problems with (I can nitpick if you want…). The main problem is, as I’ve mentioned above a few times, is that even though it CAN be effective, it usually isn’t. You can probably blame the people trying to rapidly spread the art across the world and thus you end up with a bunch of 1st Dans who have no idea what they’re really doing and starting their own schools and just showing off flashy kicks and training patterns for demos and no teachings on bettering the student whatsoever. So what you end up with is a bunch of well-stretched morons that have never been in a fight that doesn’t involve body armor and rules that stop people hitting your groin or grappling, and are thus so insecure that they feel the need to type away at a random blog site to defend their egos.

      *And this is for everyone that feel like making pointless rants that only really involve death threats and cursing (and this part is obviously not targeted to you koreanmartialarts1, I just can’t be bothered making up another post):

      If you believe something is good and it works for you, why care if not everyone thinks the same? You know the reality and you can find comfort in the knowledge that my ignorant ways will undoubtedly lead to my ironic demise. The fact that you get all pissed about it rather than trying to analyze the issue probably means A) you don’t know enough about what you practice to explain the theories behind it; B) your loyalty is based on belief rather than knowledge, or C) your literacy skills fail you and I just can’t comprehend your reasoning

  52. very nicely put chinaman. Even ITF taekwondo wont be as effective as Hybrid (MMA) combat sports in hand to hand combat. MMA has more tools, it’s as simple as that. As what Chinaman says, if I want to learn how to fight I will learn about ALL aspects of fighting, you want something as close real life combat as it gets which is MMA not the fake ass poomsae’s and pre-meditated shit they try and make you believe will help you in a fight!

    I am of course talking generally here, for all i know there may well be an ITF school which teaches you on all aspects of fighting and sparring in each of these aspects too but then would you really call it taekowndo? I would call that MMA.

    • freakychinaman Says:

      Well I think I should clarify for everyone here that for me MMA is a very big blanket term for any modern day martial art that is willing to take on board something from another martial art (as most people probably think just something like UFC where it’s pretty much muay thai and BJJ, which doesn’t always work either). So the message is you should consider every possible scenario in your game plan and at least have a survival plan and not just stick with a uniform tactic forever, because one day it will fail, whether it be that someone just does it better than you or just knows how to target your weakness. So I’m not saying that everyone who does Taekwondo sucks (at least not at this point, the radically biased article aside), only those who are unaware of what the weaknesses are in your martial art, or worse, those who are unwilling to see them.

  53. Ok I practice Tkd WTF cause its Fun! and its very competitive I love that there are tons of tournaments toplay with :)…..however having been practicing Kempo Kosho Shorei Ryu I have beaten higher degree tkd fighters likeu flies…… honestly tkd is not for fighting its to soft slow no guard and much more…..its fun to practice it tho to jump the kicks and tournaments….but it sucks….and i am still practicing because its fun! 😛 but it sucks

  54. ITF Taekwondo system and discipline is very different.

    • Chris Browne (not the one who beat up Rihanna) Says:

      It sure is. ITF is a real martial art and should not be confused with the WTF which is a sport. No comparison!

  55. Don’t blame Taekwondo if you Suck. I read your paragraph. Your mental capability is very ” Unstable” maybe that’s the reason you SUCK at Taekwondo. Taekwondo has nothing to do with you being SUCK!!!! If you SUCK Balls or just ” Taekwondo Wannabee” Kev you deserve your ass beat down.

  56. FuckingChinaman, your article is useless like yourself. Taekwondo Rules!!!!!

  57. self defence…

    […]why taekwondo sucks « Kevin Lee’s Virtual Dojo[…]…

  58. Taekwondo’s purpose is to teach people to walk away from a fight, not to destroy the offender. I can’t see how you can bash something you’ve probably never gotten off your fat-ass enough to try.

    • fuck off with that bullshit, amazing how brain washed some people are… You are saying that a martial art (meaning WAR) which is supposedly supposed to maim and kill is meant to teach people to walk away?? It should teach people how to walk then, not how to throw pussy ballet kicks ?

      If you want to learn how to fight hand to hand, full contact based combat sports are the best bar none, I feel sorry for all those who have practiced their fake ass martial arts for god knows how many years until they finally get in a fight and get the beating of their life.

  59. fuck off with that bullshit, amazing how brain washed some people are… You are saying that a martial art (meaning WAR) which is supposedly supposed to maim and kill is meant to teach people to walk away?? It should teach people how to walk then, not how to throw pussy ballet kicks ?

    If you want to learn how to fight hand to hand, full contact based combat sports are the best bar none, I feel sorry for all those who have practiced their fake ass martial arts for god knows how many years until they finally get in a fight and get the beating of their life.

  60. Everyone’s an expert…you sir,who wrote this article,are an idiot,and i would love to beat the shit out of you,taekwondo or not,You are just an idiot,who lives in a shitty country. I suggest go fuck yourself,because u don;t know what u are talking about. U fucking,10 year old mother fucker. And people commenting here,it’s obvious they are 10 year olds too. It’s clear to me that you’ve never been involved in a real street fight,so u don;t know how good taekwondo really is. So i repeat,go fuck yourself you shitty,no good bastard you. Love, your mother.

    • You’re commenting on this post also, so does that mean you’re considering yourself these things as well, or by you commenting here, it’s somehow different? Are you different?

  61. Cheap Equipment for Sale…

    […]why taekwondo sucks « Kevin Lee’s Virtual Dojo[…]…

  62. Thanks for the post. I somewhat agree with you that TKD could be considered a weaker form of martial art, however, there really isn’t a superior “form”, only superior students.

    I’ve seen the videos on Youtube, TKD vs. Muay Thai. There’s one where a TKD guy landed a Tornado kick and knocked the MT guy out within 3 seconds.

    Now, when TKD wins the comments are “That’s not really MT”. But when MT wins it’s “TKD sucks”. Again, it’s not the art, but the student.

    For people who want to go into MMA or UFC, they can take bits and pieces of a certain martial art and form them into something they can use. This isn’t what most people do.

    People take martial arts for self protection and sport. TKD is very useful against the idiot who thinks you took his parking space at the grocery store or for that drunk who wants to start trouble at your kid’s little league baseball game. These are real world experiences, and TKD works. I started TKD, not the ATA TKD, in 2000 and wouldn’t go back, but I’d like to explore other kinds of martial arts.

    Remember, most people who post things saying this or that “sucks” are those whose main exercise is walking from the TV to the fridge and watch MMA 5 hours a night. They have a good idea of what martial arts is supposed to be. A big NOT for them.

    I’ve never heard Kimbo Slice or Chuck Norris slam other forms of fighting. They probably understand there is validity in all forms, and they would be right.

  63. And one more thing. Just because some of the TKD we have here in American is watered down doesn’t mean it’s useless.

    It’s obvious, from your post, that you take martial arts, if you do, for the wrong reasons. Why do you practice and train? To kill, hurt, or maim? Or do you train to push yourself mentally and physically? To train your body to do what your mind wants to do? To learn about self control, respect of self and others?

    Are you one of those who needs to be heard, to show what you can do? Didn’t mama and daddy give you enough attention when you were a baby? Why do you feel the need to beat someone up? We train to be able to avoid a conflict, to walk away. How about you?

    A true Shaolin monk trains to perfect his body/mind/spirit, not to hurt or kill, although in the early days they had to do that in order to survive. But not now.

    Train and practice so you don’t have to fight. To most, that seems backwards, but to those of us who know, it makes perfect sense.

    I’m sure a real Shaolin monk could take you down within about 5 seconds, but they probably won’t, because they know they can.

    Think on that…

    • mmaboxer Says:

      This whole “I won’t beat you up because I know I can” is such a sack of bullshit, It’s funny to think there’s a load of people who think this when they practice a non-sparring, unrealistic form of martial art LOL. Most martial arts will teach you how to beat a person without any practice, but against someone who knows how to throw a punch, most of these fake martial arts would get owned. These fake ass martial arts instructors don’t want their students to fight at whatever cost because they know they teach them unrealistic techniques!

      I feel sorry for the ‘martial artist’ who trains in a martial art and who never gets to test their skills… it’s pathetic and they would never really know if their techniques work for sure. I do MMA for COMPETITION, not because I’m a pussy who thinks everyone is out to get me. If you want to learn how to FIGHT train in a combat sport MT MMA WRESTLING BOXING are the best because they focus on full-contact sparring, in other words FIGHTING!

    • freakychinaman Says:

      First of all I think whether we started or are drawn to martial arts for whatever reason, we shouldn’t define it in a new way just because the times have changed. Martial arts is are forms based on conflict. If we are to say it’s only purpose is just to train you to push your mental and physical limits then you may as well include yoga and boot camp… and any sport really. And without real fighting or simply all out sparring, you’ll never learn to keep that calm amidst all the aggression or give mercy to an opponent who’d rip your eyes out if he could.
      In the end the atmosphere is very different, not unlike that first time you step into the dojo/gym when you think you’re decently fit and can probably crack some ribs with a punch… then in the end you’ve got a cramp and bruised knuckles. There is a big difference between thinking you have no reason to lose based on your training and knowing you can win based on experience.
      I’d bet on an old experienced master over a young gym junkie any day. If you take your training seriously and aim to perfect your skills, you cannot deny the need for real-life applications and practice. You need to learn the timing, how hard you actually need to hit to affect an opponent, which you can’t get from sparring drills or youtube videos.
      Yes, martial arts teaches you to avoid conflict, but because you have the ability to deny it, because it also teaches you when you cannot avoid it then you need to know you can do something about it to keep the peace or protect others and yourself. And so to give a long answer short, I didn’t do martial arts to hurt people, I just find it interesting to learn what my body can do. I’m not particularly good at fighting and my experience is pretty low, but I think it’s important to not dwell in the romance of the concept of martial arts and ignore the gritty bits that’s at it’s core.

  64. what is obi belt…

    […]why taekwondo sucks « Kevin Lee’s Virtual Dojo[…]…

  65. Just thought i would post this.

    If you have ever seen the old jackie chan movies drunken master or snake in the eagles shadow you’ll know the of the main bad guy at the end. Well he is a TKD 9th Dan (think he was maybe 6th-7th at the time of filming) His name is Hwang Jang Lee.

    here’s a try story about him

    Hwang was in the Korean army as a Taekwondo instructor that his ability was tested for real . A Vietnamese knife fighter challenged Hwang to fight, knives against his kicks. Hwang had refused but when the knife fighter lunged at him, Hwang fired a round kick to the knife fighter’s head, killing him instantly. The killing of the Vietnamese fighter broke news but Hwang was never charged as it was determined that it was self-defense.

    So TKD can be affective, it really is down to the individual, and I’d personally wouldn’t fuck with jhoon rhee either!!

    Also check out craig burke on youtube……

  66. true story!!

  67. lol I can guarantee that this story is indeed not true, why would you believe something like that???

  68. ryuitachi Says:

    You clearly did not do any research at all!
    To say that any martial art sucks just proves you have no clue what your talking about. Just like many martial arts now, there are sub groups of styles and dojos that only focus on sport, which is completely freaking stupid. a martial art is an abstract construction and when you learn a martial art you “absorb” the art and use/train for your own reason. to put of video of taekwondo vs judo, lets say, is 100% stupid and makes absolutely no sense. its impossible. people in videos like that do not represent the style but they represent what they personally took from the style. it is literally impossible to put one style against another and just shows your ignorance in the subject.
    If you truly knew what martial arts are, and had a remote knowledge of what tkd is, you wouldnt of made this page. Real taekwondo, just like all martial arts, is a system of philosophies and techniques to defend yourself. if you think tkd is 90% kicking then that just means you dont know what tkd is.
    Just like karate and judo and kendo and boxing and majority of martial arts now, there are organizations that focus on stupid shit like trophies but there are good organizations that focus on real self defense. Taekwondo has two substyles, one focuses on sport and the other focus on real martial arts skills.
    To say one martial arts sucks or that one martial art is the best proves that you have no clue what martial arts is and why they were created and 2. you need to find a training place that actually teaches martial arts and isnt there just to take your money

  69. ok so I’m jumping in reading only a portion.

    I believe many martial arts have their advantages and disadvantages.

    Sparring in TKD unless you are in a competition, isn’t designed to be a bloodsport, it’s a way of simply learning the fluidity of various combinations. and a way to build memory to successful / unsuccessful combinations.

    As far as TKD being used to kill / mame your opponent, well then it goes back to the basics and the training. forget your fancy flight kicks / spinning kicks / kicks that can destroy your own joints. basic solid kicks, know your ranges, and enjoy wiping the blood of your opponent off you.

    having been in TKD for 25 years, and having been in more than my share of bar fights. it all comes back to simple fast well placed attacks. I think the most I’ve ever walked out with is a black eye. I have talked to more than a few police officers and been in my share of legal trouble due to it. now take into account I’m not the big biker guy. I’m only 5’5 and 170lbs.

    Use the tools you are provided with some of the mental capacity you (should) have and it won’t matter what you use.

    Semper Fi

    • freakychinaman Says:

      Thanks Eric,

      Very insightful and to be honest I really have nothing more to add to that, simply that we should have more people like you out there teaching others how to approach martial arts.

      …also liked the good sentence structure…. you won’t believe how hard it is to read some of the stuff here…

      Respect

  70. Ilikejaffacakes Says:

    ok. First of all I do taekwondo, tagb. Taekwondo association of great britain. It doesn’t suck, you learn how to keep your balance, you become stronger and better at kicking. You don’t see the point in that, well it is a skill which you could use if you feel threatened. Like roundhouse kicking someone if they steal. Taekwondo does help put your reactions up. It helps you kick and punch with great accuracy. It’s fun to do, I’m sorry that you don’t see it in that way. I pay 25 pounds to grade and get a higher belt.

  71. If you consider Taekwondo as a supportive arsenal to your primary martial art, you’ll realize that the kicks learned with TKD are actually significantly useful and practical. Just, not on its own. You always want at least two martial arts that can play off one another. That, and it’s not all just about self-defense, which these days is becoming more and more aggressive, essentially defeating the original objective… There are arrays of beneficial uses from said arts.

  72. Wow that was quite an insightful read (and read everything even the bickering and swearing parts LOL). Plenty of mixed emotions about martial arts in general, although I do not agree that Taekwondo is useless, I do find it a little incomplete as a form of martial art (this is my opinion not a fact). However I did have the honor (and yes I call it an honor) in 20 years of martial art training to fight with some very skillful Taekwondo practitioners. I am a Shaolin fighter and I have studied and learned all 5 temple styles and all five animal styles and I went all the way to become a Sifu, although there is few things that I hate in Shaolin it was still for me a very good experience since I would also combine Ju Jit Su which I was taking alongside with my Shaolin lessons. The way I was instructed was with a very private group (only 5 students with a grand master) we would train for three consecutive hours for practically 3 days a week and the remaining two days were for my Ju Jit Su classes. I have students today that are coming from several disciplines of martial arts and combat style including Taekwondo. I have to say that the kicks that they learned in Taekwondo are pretty useful for Shaolin; however some students couldn’t break up the styles they learned to embrace the shaolin style. Shaolin take several years to a lifetime to master (although I am called a Sifu) I do not consider myself as fulfilled than a genuine Shaolin Monk. I strongly believe that all martial arts are great in their own fashion. The spectacular kicks of Taekwondo mixed with the non-less spectacular flying kicks of Shaolin do embellish both styles when used together. But in a real fight I have to say that my goal is strike quick and leave and I would set Shaolin aside to use a quick and effective block and grab Ju Jit Su technique.

    I am thinking of taking few Taekwondo classes and incorporate the techniques with my other disciplines. I do believe that Taekwondo is good, but not as a primary martial art. I had one of my Taekwondo black belt 4 degree student demonstrated few of his kicks by pairing him with one of my top Shaolin students (my Shaolin student used the Crane animal style, which is the most defensive style of Shaolin), I’m sorry to say that most of my TKD student’s kicks were block practically instantly out of 10 kicks 3 did hit my student; however I’ve got to admit that when one of those kicks get to your head, fat chances are that your next destination is the ground. So there is good and bad in all martial arts and Shaolin Kung Fu isn’t spared.

    I did invite some of my TKD student’s masters for a friendly match at my dojo, this was very interesting fight and I can guaranty that a very good and quick TKD master can “not without difficulties” obviously attack and beat a Shaolin master; I should know I still have some of their toe nails planted in my skull LOL. And I don’t believe I suck as a Shaolin practitioner. Out of 4 masters I’ve beat 2 and one was equal (I used mostly the old fashion dragon style for the most of them).

    That was an interesting and friendly match. Where we’ve all learned about one another’s discipline and that what martial in my opinion should be; learning, exercising, keeping fit with a healthy mind and body.

    No martial arts sucks if one learned it and apply it to its full extend.

  73. Hilarious. I love hearing people bag on TKD….even TMA in general. I wasted 7 or 8 years in traditional martial arts. When I moved to a city where no schools practiced my style, I trained Tae Kwan Do up to Cho Dan…through about 9 or 10 test-fees, by the way….then I finally took the leap and started training BJJ about 4-1/2 years ago. Never looked back. You might take a shot or two to the head on your way in, but, like Rickson Gracie says, “I’m like a shark. The ground is my ocean and most people don’t even know how to swim.”
    You get a TKD practicioner to the ground and he or she is lost. It’s so funny when a guy goes straight to the playground headlock, exposes his back and gets choked out.

    • Chris Browne (not the one who beat up Rihanna) Says:

      And when your swimming in your ocean on the ground in a street fight his friend will walk up and kick you in the head. Your BJJ will be no good to you then. Street fighting is where it is at! No rules and everything is a weapon. Everything else is for girls. But a word of advice stay on your feet as long as you can old bean! You will spend enough time in hospital on it if you dont! 😉

  74. nikolaus tan Says:

    LoL.. this gay guy is just provoking.. he’s just a sissy, left him be… we dont argue with babbies right… Besides it’s true because there are millions of tkd practitioner , there are many of them whose just bragging with no real shit or whatsoever. But to judge something base on that, is just plain stupid 😀 -I dont care if you disagree- LoL

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  77. Nick Thompson Says:

    tae kwon do is an awsome style i do agree a lot of TKD students learn the moves but the problem is none of the instructors teach people how to use what they have and if they do it is usually for sport but if you find the right instructor then they can show you what its for instead of just saying do this and do that.

  78. Wow, I’m actually impressed at how long this thread has continued. Nice work. I can see where both sides are coming from, but i am a believer that if you yourself don’t understand something in depth then don’t dismiss it. I am not a TKD student, so i can’t comment on the technical aspect, but from what i can tell the videos shown are a poor example of TKD & it’s potential. It is also humorous to see people claiming TKD is useless as anything other than a sport and then comparing it to MMA which is….a sport. It is also interesting how times change and now, just a few years after this blog we see TKD being used effectively by MMA athletes such as Ben Henderson & Anthony Pettis (among others). I can not comment on it’s effectiveness in real self defense as there is no concrete evidence for or against. Regardless, it has been interesting to see peoples various points of view on the subject. Amituofo.

  79. I understand where you are coming from, but TKD isn’t what it seems. It’s easy to judge it as stupid and useless, but taekwondo is an effective form of martial arts. First off, Olympic sparring is totally different than real life situation fighting of taekwondo. TKD is used to defend yourself in REAL LIFE SITUATIONS. So, clearly, it wouldn’t be a fight for points out on the streets. Though some prefer Muay Thai, or judo, or even Ssireum (Korean wrestling), TKD is still a practical approach. You wouldn’t do head shot in TKD for real life. There ARE kicks aimed to the groin. And knees. Just because it’s different to outsiders, doesn’t mean it’s same on the inside. Secondly, TKD helps develop certain fighting features. Like speed, balance, and precision. Some people use TKD as a building block to help learn other types of martial arts. TKD doesn’t focus on power, because power comes with age. And speed helps with power. So don’t say something is stupid when you don’t even know what the hell you are talking about. Muay Thai has it’s benefits, but their purposes are different. A martial arts can’t be better than another, because they are different martial arts for a reason. I love Muay Thai, and TKD. And I learn both because I they will prepare me in different ways. Taekwondo and Muay Thai are part of one type of martial arts: Sil Jeon Do. Okay, think before you blog. You get a gold star for trying.

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  82. ITS STUPID

  83. Never join never ever is borind pointless time wasteing money wasting dumb painfull hard scary. its -1000 fun 10000000 present Stupid.never join you will want to play with your friends but wait what did your perents say lets here.perents say time for tikewondo but the you say I don’t want to Im going to my friends house but then they say you wanted to do it EVEN THOE YOU DID NOT!!!.never join if you do I would kill yourself

  84. Btw, the last video of the apple being kicked off a sword is a skill you learn for fun. There’s something called the Demo Team, in which tkd practitioners do cool tricks like that during PERFORMANCES, idiot.

  85. Julian Yoon Says:

    You can say Taekwondo sucks and I’m fine with that. I understand the opinion. I am skilled in Taekwondo, Hapkido, and Wing Chun. Before I took Hapkido or Wing Chun I’ve won a number of street fights using my Taekwondo skills. Many of my opponents were skilled in MMA. Don’t get me wrong, Taekwondo has its flaws but definitely is not useless.

  86. Korean War Bride Statistics, Future of Korea? Says:

    Korean War Bride USA

    Everything Korea has are watered down and fake…just look at fashion, plastic surgery, sports everything is learned from Japan and USA. Of course the ancient real martial arts from China are forgotten in Korean. Buddhism and Confuciansim died already in Korea also, replaced by white Christianity from Koreas Conquerors.

    Flow of time, flow of time.

  87. Korean War Bride Statistics, Future of Korea? Says:

    Really Korea, what are your arguments???

    I look for any responses to your modern culture being colonized by USA, Japan and your ancient culture from colonized byChina.

    Honestly looking for legit arguments here, not concerned with trolls or flame.

  88. Your total lack of respect for Kung Fu makes your opinion on any other martial arts topic invalid because you are obviously ignorant. Poorly written article, biased, pretentious, all around just bad.

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